Mariners-Braves

[Deleted]

Braves send : Jared Cosart, SP 300k

Mariners send: Vince Catricala, 1B 300k, James Paxton, SP 300k, SEA 2012 6th

Braves to accept.

[Braves GM (Jared)]

I accept

[Deleted]

VETO, for 2 reasons, I thought the Braves were getting Paxton and 6th for spect and Cosart, but they get all for cosart. and 2, The reasoning of Austin really changed my mind, Paxton>Cosart by a bit, but I thought the spec-pick evened it out but now BBraves gets both, so I veto

[whitesoxgm]

approve

[Deleted]

Sorry, but has anyone seen the stats on these spects or read a scouting report? The Mariners are giving up a bit to much here I think. Cosart struggled in AA last year after being traded to Houston. Paxton was a lights out SP last year in A and AA for SEA and should be in the bigs this year at some point in time. Catricala at 22 hit .349 with 25 hrs and 106 rbi in A and AA this year along with a very good K:BB ratio. Both of these guys were top 5 in the Seattle system prior to the Montero trade and he barely counts as a spect anymore. Plus a draft pick which could turn into anything this is a bad trade for Seattle. I have to VETO this trade.
Main Reasons:
-Paxton(23) had a 2.37 era last season with a K:BB of 131:43 and he k'd 12 guys per 9.
-Catricala(23) hit .349 with 25 hrs and 106 rbi. He also scored 101 runs and stole 17 bases with a K:BB of 92:57.
-Both are Top 5 team prospects.
-Cosart struggles mightily with his command and scouts say hes destined for the bullpen.

[Angels GM (Derrick)]

Veto

[Braves GM (Jared)]

Was there collusion here? No. Does this trade in any way hurt the league? No. We are talking about prospects who we all value differently. No one knows IF these guys will even make it to the majors. Keep your opinions to your self and remember why we are voting in the first place.

[Deleted]

Approve.

And I fully back what Jared is saying. The only need for a veto is if there is collusion, or if the deal is straight absurd and would unwreck the balance of the league.

In this case, the only guys being traded are prospects. Guys who have not even reached the big leagues. So wht if one of them has better stats then the other, in the end in means nothing as the stats won't accumulate at all, and mean nothing besides a ranking amongst themselves. We all value prospects differently, and this is a trade where two people value one guy more than the other.

The amount of vetoes in this league is absolutely absurd, just because people "think" it is bad value for one of the teams when the one owner actually WANTS the players they are recieving. Seeing all these vetoes makes me really question why I am even in this league.

[Deleted]

Gregg is 100% correct. Vetoing this? Really? We can talk about prospects and vetoing when Bryce Harper is traded for a grade B prospect.

This looks fine to me. Some think Paxton is better than Cosart, and vice-versa...well, to each his own.

Obviously no collusion here. Nothing that will disrupt league parity.

Not vetoable in the slightest.

Approve.

[Deleted]

Approve

[Jake (Former Rays GM)]

VETO. do u guys know who Paxton is???

[Rockies GM (Alex)]

I just can't see it. I wanted to stay out of this trade. However, I don't see one way in which it could possibly benefit BOTH sides. Just looking at the stats cardinals puts out just doesn't make it look fair at all. And nearly all rankings agree.

It's not even close to the worst deal ever, but I just have to VETO since this deal is going no where. Especially since it's not one better prospect, but possible TWO better prospects and a pick for a lesser one. Deal is cancelled.

[Braves GM (Jared)]

MLB.com Rankings: Jarred Cosart #61
Statistically speaking: Cosart’s numbers in Double-A after his trade to Houston in the Hunter Pence deal might not look great (4.71 ERA), but it pays to look more closely. Take out his second start (seven runs on eight hits over 3 1/3 innings) and his final outing (nine runs on eight hits over four innings) and Cosart handled the jump extremely well. In those other five starts spanning 29 1/3 innings, Cosart allowed 15 hits and just three earned runs for a 0.93 ERA and a .146 batting average against.

James Paxton #77
Scouting report: Some felt Paxton, the twice drafted and late-signed former Kentucky product, was destined to be a reliever because he had only two pitches and lacked the command to be a starter. Those two pitches, his fastball and curve, are plus offerings. The fastball runs into the upper 90s and his curve is a true power breaking ball. He showed a large amount of improvement with his changeup and that drop in walk rate is a sign of improved command. He was shut down in August last year, but it was more of a precaution, with his future as a starter completely intact.

Vince Catricala - Unranked
Defensively terrible at most positions. His bat may carry him to the majors but he will either be a DH or a first baseman. To stay at 1B he will have to hit a lot. May not make it past the upper minor league systems.

6th round pick

The key here is that none of these players has made it above AA. Stats in the minors mean absolutely nothing. Here is Roy Halladays stats when he was 23: 2-3, 5.50 ERA, 38 Ks in 73 innings pitched.

Just because Paxton and Catricala did well at AA does not mean they will make it to the majors. The same goes for Cosart also. If everyone reaches their CEILINGS in a perfect world then the Mariners would have an ACE in Cosart and I would end up with a number 2-3 starting pitcher and a light hitting 1B/DH like Billy Butler and a draft pick who might or might not pan out. How is this possibly lopsided?

Alex- does not matter if the trade benefits both sides in your opinion. Does the trade hurt the league? NO. Maybe the Mariners think Cosart will be an ACE. And I just want someone who will hopefully reach the Majors this year in Paxton. Take your opinions out of this and let managers manage their teams how they see fit. The only reasons for a VETO should be collusion or a trade that in some way hurts the league.

I think I have been a pretty darn good owner in this league and the way our trades are reviewed and voted on are seriously starting to get ridiculous. Get it together or you may lose some of your more active and involved GMs.

PS. The original deal I offered the Mariners was Paxton/6th round pick for Cosart. He felt that I should have more so he suggested he could throw in another prospect. Put your opinions aside and remember why we vote on trades in the first place.

[Deleted]

Feb 6, 2012 16:27:20 GMT -5 Braves GM (Jared) said:

The key here is that none of these players has made it above AA. Stats in the minors mean absolutely nothing. Here is Roy Halladays stats when he was 23: 2-3, 5.50 ERA, 38 Ks in 73 innings pitched.

Just because Paxton and Catricala did well at AA does not mean they will make it to the majors. The same goes for Cosart also. If everyone reaches their CEILINGS in a perfect world then the Mariners would have an ACE in Cosart and I would end up with a number 2-3 starting pitcher and a light hitting 1B/DH like Billy Butler and a draft pick who might or might not pan out. How is this possibly lopsided?

Alex- does not matter if the trade benefits both sides in your opinion. Does the trade hurt the league? NO. Maybe the Mariners think Cosart will be an ACE. And I just want someone who will hopefully reach the Majors this year in Paxton. Take your opinions out of this and let managers manage their teams how they see fit. The only reasons for a VETO should be collusion or a trade that in some way hurts the league.

I think I have been a pretty darn good owner in this league and the way our trades are reviewed and voted on are seriously starting to get ridiculous. Get it together or you may lose some of your more active and involved GMs.

PS. The original deal I offered the Mariners was Paxton/6th round pick for Cosart. He felt that I should have more so he suggested he could throw in another prospect. Put your opinions aside and remember why we vote on trades in the first place.

I couldn't agree more on all the bolded points. The vetoes and the way how people put there own opinions into trades here is absurd. In the end, it shouldn't matter what anybody but the two owners involved in the trade think, as it is their trade.

The process is just here to make sure the balance of the league is not ruined, or that no collusion is involved. That SHOULD be the only purpose of a trade being reviewed.

And I sure do hope this process does not continue, because as Jared said, this is getting ridiculous. And soon, I will not be surprised if some owners leave.

[Rockies GM (Alex)]

Okay. I get it man. The only rankings I really use are Sickles and he's pretty high on Paxton. I know I should have stayed out of it cause it's my dad's trade so I'm automatically biased. I wont be voting again on his deals since i don't think I can vote fairly. As commissioner, and after reviewing the points, I change my vote to approve. I haven't done this before, but I feel it's necessary in order to change the review system we've gotten into. This is also official. I haven't updated docs yet though.

[Rockies GM (Alex)]

Official.

[Braves GM (Jared)]

Thank you Alex I think the right decision was made here. I didn't even know the Mariners GM was your dad. I will vote on trades exactly like I have fought for in the above posts.