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Post by Blue Jays GM (Stephen) on Nov 11, 2017 13:40:50 GMT -5
Padres Receive:
Mallex Smith, OF (TB) $800K (3 of 7)
4th Round Pick
Blue Jays Receive:
Chase Anderson, SP (MIL) $1M
Blue Jays Accept because I wanted to add to my pitching staff after trading Luis Castillo. I hate to lose Mallex, but I think Chase Anderson found something last season and feel that starting pitching needed to be addressed on my team.
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Post by Padres GM (Denver) on Nov 11, 2017 13:42:32 GMT -5
Accept, I'm saving 200K this season and I get a guy who I can hang onto for a few years while picking up a pick. I gotta start trying to control the draft like Das does.
Hate to lose Anderson, but happy with the return.
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Post by Rockies GM (Alex) on Nov 11, 2017 13:52:05 GMT -5
Just wondering Denver... how does a borderline 3rd/4th outfielder and a late draft pick make it worthwhile to move a top 25 starting pitcher (points per start) last season on a $1m contract? Could I get more of your reasoning on this before I vote? I'm just not sure saving $200k is a great reason. Thanks
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Post by Padres GM (Denver) on Nov 11, 2017 13:57:58 GMT -5
I have 8 SP that I feel comfortable using and Anderson is at the back end of that. Having a guy who's 30 that I don't think will match what he did last season isn't going to really help me out moving forward like this trade could.
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Post by Marlins GM (Travis) on Nov 11, 2017 15:03:27 GMT -5
Well, I'll be the first to veto even though idk if anyone else will, as apparently it's not a thing anymore. For reason Colorado has said. SP is coveted, and I can't see trading a great contract and a top 25 point guy for pieces.
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Post by Mariners GM (Phil) on Nov 11, 2017 16:00:02 GMT -5
i'll throw out a second veto, but i agree with Travis SP is easily the most expensive thing to get Anderson is cheap and looks like a solid addition for not much. if Fiers went for a second round pick i think Anderson should be roughly the same, that being said i value Smith very low. just my thoughts
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Post by Blue Jays GM (Stephen) on Nov 11, 2017 16:52:29 GMT -5
You don’t think that Smith makes up the difference in rounds? They were only separated by 50 points. I personally think it is a fair deal, but of course I am biased. I wouldn’t say that Anderson is a guaranteed top 25 point guy. He is a 30 year old that has had one nice season. Also, as Denver said he has a TON of pitchers and not many outfielders. Anderson was 48th starting pitcher in points last season, not top 25.
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Post by Marlins GM (Travis) on Nov 11, 2017 16:56:48 GMT -5
Top 25 points per start, not overall.
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Post by Blue Jays GM (Stephen) on Nov 11, 2017 17:01:52 GMT -5
It is unfair to assume that rate would continue over a full season. He has never pitched more than 156 innings in any season.
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Post by Das (Former Giants GM) on Nov 11, 2017 17:17:51 GMT -5
Allow. It's a fantastic deal for the Blue Jays. The Padres seem to banking on Anderson falling apart and losing any value, which seems highly unlikely considering the contract and market for Starting Pitching. Both teams seem to be operating in the spirit of doing what they feel is best for their team. I think the biggest problem is the Padres have the illusion that they can draft like the Giants (only completely jokingly saying this), so they think they can make up the value in their drafting ability, which seems possible (not joking about this). It's not good trade for the Padres, but not one that smells of anything other than differences of opinion of what they see in a players value.
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Post by Rockies GM (Alex) on Nov 11, 2017 17:44:31 GMT -5
You don’t think that Smith makes up the difference in rounds? They were only separated by 50 points. I personally think it is a fair deal, but of course I am biased. I wouldn’t say that Anderson is a guaranteed top 25 point guy. He is a 30 year old that has had one nice season. Also, as Denver said he has a TON of pitchers and not many outfielders. Anderson was 48th starting pitcher in points last season, not top 25. He scored 180 more points than Smith last year (366-182). I'm not sure I get the Fiers comparison, Phil. Anderson is a far better pitcher statistically, better contract, more secure job. www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/october-2018-starting-pitcher-rankings/ --> this list has him as the 36th best SP, ahead of guys like Gio Gonzalez, Jon Gray, Drew Pomeranz. But a lot of sites I've checked out too that rank him pretty low, one site as low as 140th, which is ridiculous... not really decided on my vote yet. |
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Post by Mariners GM (Phil) on Nov 11, 2017 17:51:56 GMT -5
You don’t think that Smith makes up the difference in rounds? They were only separated by 50 points. I personally think it is a fair deal, but of course I am biased. I wouldn’t say that Anderson is a guaranteed top 25 point guy. He is a 30 year old that has had one nice season. Also, as Denver said he has a TON of pitchers and not many outfielders. Anderson was 48th starting pitcher in points last season, not top 25. He scored 180 more points than Smith last year (366-182). I'm not sure I get the Fiers comparison, Phil. Anderson is a far better pitcher statistically, better contract, more secure job. www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/october-2018-starting-pitcher-rankings/ --> this list has him as the 36th best SP, ahead of guys like Gio Gonzalez, Jon Gray, Drew Pomeranz. But a lot of sites I've checked out too that rank him pretty low, one site as low as 140th, which is ridiculous... not really decided on my vote yet well i mean if you get a second rounder for Fiers, Anderson should be much more. to answer Stephen's question of do i think Smith doesn't make up for the pick difference? no not really i don't value him very highly like i said. again just my opinion but i figured i'd say it |
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Post by Blue Jays GM (Stephen) on Nov 11, 2017 18:27:38 GMT -5
Oh my points comparison was between fiers and Anderson not Smith. Also, on the fangraphs ranking, Sporer constantly talks about how we need to rate Anderson higher and seems to be one of his boys. This is evidenced by the fact that of the recent fangraphs articles about him are almost all by Paul. So I think consensus is a little lower than that one fangraphs ranking. I am not saying Anderson is trash, obviously I wanted him and traded for him. I am just saying that he is one season removed of having a sub 300 point season.
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Post by Rockies GM (Alex) on Nov 11, 2017 20:02:23 GMT -5
Ahh got it. My bad on the comparison! You're right 👍 valid points too!
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Post by Marlins GM (Travis) on Nov 11, 2017 23:21:56 GMT -5
With how hard it is to get SP, and the fact he scored 300 plus points last year and had 1 mil contract, should've given up more. Nobody will sign a 300pt SP in FA for less than 8mil. I think Fiers was a steal and I would've vetoed it had I seen it. But I wouldn't value a pick over 300pts, esp 300pts at the SP position.
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Post by Blue Jays GM (Stephen) on Nov 11, 2017 23:40:18 GMT -5
I would like to add one last thing and that is Chase Anderson does not make an appearance on the Cockcroft top 300 dynasty assets and comes in as SP56 on ranking for next year. This is not an ace that is included in this deal and player like this could be franchised for $5M. The cost savings additionally is only for one year, as the contract will expire at the end of next season. Smith has 5 years of control and if he isn’t great, he will be cheap. I don’t know. I still don’t understand the vetoes, and maybe I am just not up to par on how this league values things.
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Post by Braves GM (Jared) on Nov 12, 2017 0:07:02 GMT -5
Approve
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Post by Rockies GM (Alex) on Nov 12, 2017 9:15:13 GMT -5
I'll approve, although I think that the padres could have gotten more, even if they have a lot of starting pitchers.
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Post by Mariners GM (Phil) on Nov 12, 2017 11:02:13 GMT -5
i guess i'm just vetoing because while there is value in Smith and the pick, SP is incredibly expensive and a guy like Anderson who is cheap and is pretty good and who was traded for less than what Fiers was traded for(in my opinion) i feel like this is one they could rework and make more fair for the Padres.
Again this is my opinion, everyone values things differently I value cap room at a premium and i value SP above all else so i guess if you guys can see where i'm coming from that i just thought it seemed like a rather small return for a 1M significantly contributing SP. if this deal goes through i'm not gonna freak out i just thought maybe there could be more here.
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Post by Yankees GM (Jerry) on Nov 12, 2017 20:26:14 GMT -5
Approve
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Post by Brewers GM (Tim) on Nov 12, 2017 21:36:14 GMT -5
Approve
I️ like the Anderson side better (a lot better), but it seems like both sides are familiar with the players involved and are cognizant of the upside/downside
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Post by Orioles GM (Michael) on Nov 12, 2017 21:40:00 GMT -5
Approve I️ like the Anderson side better (a lot better), but it seems like both sides are familiar with the players involved and are cognizant of the upside/downside Approve for reasons stated above. Current total stands at 6 approvals, 3 vetos. |
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Post by Dave (Former Nationals GM) on Nov 12, 2017 21:47:25 GMT -5
Approve
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Post by Jeff (Former Rangers GM) on Nov 13, 2017 0:52:58 GMT -5
Approve
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Post by Dodgers GM (Scott) on Nov 13, 2017 0:59:55 GMT -5
I'll approve but the Blue Jays are definitely coming out way ahead on this one. I can see where the Padres are coming from accepting this deal with Anderson being a back end of the rotation starter and only having one year of control left. But I definitely think they should've been able to get more for him.
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Post by Rockies GM (Alex) on Nov 13, 2017 10:42:25 GMT -5
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Post by Marlins GM (Travis) on Nov 14, 2017 2:36:18 GMT -5
Why is it, that GMs approve, and then say, that this clearly favors one side of the trade? Shouldn't that be a veto? This seems to happen again and again, but yet we still approve. This is going on my fourth year here. When I first started, trades were vetoed left and right. And now?! We wouldn't veto a trade if our life depended on it. What has happened?!
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Post by Astros GM (Will) on Nov 14, 2017 10:35:32 GMT -5
When are trades ever perfectly even? You're always going to have your own preference but you have to objectively view each trade from the league point of view. Does this trade make the league better or worse? I personally didn't vote on this trade because I had active interest in Chase Anderson and couldn't view this objectively.
One year of Chase Anderson, while valuable in 2018, is not going to sway the future of the league.
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Post by Marlins GM (Travis) on Nov 14, 2017 20:30:26 GMT -5
If the runner up to WS had acquired Chase Anderson for next season, for this, that wouldn't sway their chances on going to WS again the next season? No offense Jays, but Jays are trying to field a team, and that's why we approved this. I don't think that should be the case here. Whereas if the Marlins, who has gone out of the playoffs least 2 years in first round, made this trade, that significantly increases my chances for playoff run next year (esp since I'm not losing much this off-season). So if I made this deal, I'd hope you guys would veto it. My point is we shouldn't be looking at the team. The market demands a good return for SP, regardless of the team being a contender or not. And the return wasn't enough.
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Post by Marlins GM (Travis) on Nov 14, 2017 20:33:10 GMT -5
I had 5 or 6 vetoed trades my first season in this league alone. We don't have 5 or 6 vetoed trades an entire year. Some GMs are stealing trades, and we're letting it happen. This wasn't a complete steal. But it was enough for a veto based on how difficult SP is to come by.
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