Fantrax League

[astrosgm]

Ok guys, it's finally time!! (Rejoice!!! )

I have just finished both leagues myself (the skeletons of both of them) one for the AL, and one for the NL.

About the league, settings are exactly alike in both leagues.

It is H2H points, with biweekly matchups. I thought with us starting latem and there would only be around 7 - 8 matchups left it wouldn't be enough. So I put instead of weekly, biweekly, which scores Mon-Thurs as a matchup, then Fri-Sun. So instead of 7 matchups, there will be 15.

The scoring itself is a work in progress.
But as of right now, the scoring is as follows.

Hitters
2B - 2
3B - 3
BB - 1
CS - (-2)
H - 1
HR - 5
R - 1
RBI - 1
SB - 4
SO - (-1)

Pitching
BB - (-1)
BS - (-5)
HLD - 4
IP - .5
K - 2
L - 4
S - 8
W - 8

This breaks down into (currently) the top 20 in each category -



1.Jose Bautista 460 , Justin Verlander 449.5
2. Matt Kemp 446 , Roy Halladay 422.67
3. Jose Reyes 434 , Clayton Kershaw 414.33
4.Jacoby Ellsbury 408 , CC Sabathia 412.83
5. Ryan Braun 401 , Cliff Lee 389.67
6. Curtis Granderson 398 , Felix Hernandez 388
7. Adrian Gonzalez 395 , Jered Weaver 382.17
8. Ian Kinsler 387 , James Shields 381.33
9. Prince Fielder 376 , Cole Hamels 378
10. Miguel Cabrera 369 , Craig Kimbrel 370
11. Dustin Pedroia 368 , CJ Wilson 360
12. Andrew McCutchen 363 , Dan Haren 357.17
13. Michael Bourn 353 , Tim Lincecum 350.67
14. Adrian Beltre 351 , David Price 349.5
15. Mark Teixiera 349 , Jon Lester 341.17
16. David Ortiz 349 , Brian Wilson 335.5
17. Joey Votto 344 , Ian Kennedy 334.17
18. Justin Upton 343 , Tommy Hanson 333.67
19. Paul Konerko 343 , Anibal Sanchez 328.5
20. Chris Young 341 , Yovanni Gallardo 325.67

Other then the decimals here, the stats themselves are pretty even (though I am working on fixing that)

Well, this is the basic skeleton of what the leagues are all about so far, and it is scheduled to start August 1 (first Monday in August)

And for your invite, send me a pm with your email and I'll send you an invite to your league.

And for the record, Rockies is in charge of the NL league, and I am in charge of the AL one (although I don't have a team in it, it still allows me to be commish of it)

And as for any problems/issues/or concerns, all of this is up for debate, as this is just the beginning setting I have put in place for the league.

So leave anything you would like to say here!

Thanks everybody, looking forward to a great (half) season!!!!

Best Regards,

Astros

[Deleted]

I posted a point system from my saber league a little earlier, but since that's a bit complicated, I agree that we should go with a pretty basic points system.

Still, while the one that we have set up as default isn't terrible here are things I'd change.

For hitters:

1) Change Ks from -1 to -.5 -> Taking away the value of a hit for every time a guy strikes out seems excessive.

2) Change SB and CS values -> If a player gets a hit and then steals second, he gets 4 points... which is almost the same as a HR (5). Seems a bit excessive. I think 2 points is a sweet spot. Rewards speed, but not to the point of making it equal to power.

Also, getting caught stolen should be the same negative value or a bigger negative vlaue. I mean, a 50% SB rate is terrible in baseball, even catchers can manage to steal at 50% for the most part, but points wise you'd still come out on top. In fact, I think +2 for a SB and -3 for CS is ideal.

For pitchers:

1) We need to incorporate Earned Runs somehow. I think guys who eat innings are worthwhile, but they would get over-represented in a system like this.

2) Strikeouts need to be way lower in value! Currently an out is worth one-third of .5, so .17 points. While a strikeout is worth 2.17 (2 for the K + .17 for 1/3 IP). There's no way a strikeout is worth more than 10 times a regular out.

3) BB are a strange stat, but it's hard to separate them from hits. Is it better for a pitcher to give up a HR (which doesn't give any negative points) than a BB (-1 points)? I think we should leave this out. If we incorporate ER, pitchers who walk guys will automatically be punished.

4) Saves equaling wins is a bit of a hard sell for me. A RP can easily accumulate 40 saves... while the best pitcher in baseball rarely gets even 20 wins. Not to mention, SP rack up more losses that counter act wins.

5) We should incorporate holds, maybe at 1/2 or 1/4 of a save? My argument here is that Venters would have less than 1/5 of the points that Kimbrel does, but he's probably almost as valuable for the braves.

Based on these factors I suggest the following changes:

Ks -> From 2 to .5
Sv -> From 8 to 5
Hld -> From 0 to 2
ER -> From 0 to -1
IP -> From .5 to 2
BB -> From -1 to 0

In this system, Ks are about double the value of a regular out (which still might be too much, but better than 11x a regular out). A pitcher that gives up runs will get punished, but still gets some credit for eating innings. Saves are still worth a lot (especially if you get 40 of them), but not to the point where Kimbrel has more points than Lincecum). I think the best closer in the game at #30 is about right, after all, he pitches only 1 inning every few days.

I punched the numbers into website that calculates rankings automatically and here's what it gave me: www.lastplayerpicked.com/priceguide/points.php?t=30&l=MLB&m=260&b=1&ds=11S&dis=250&spl=&hs=70&ps=30&pt=Y&AB=0&R=1&RBI=1&HR=5&SB=2&CS=-3&H=1&BB=1&DB=2&TP=3&SO=-.5&HBP=0&SH=0&SF=0&IP=2&W=8&L=-4&S=5&K=.5&ER=-1&PBB=0&PH=0&PHR=0&C=1&1B=1&2B=1&3B=1&SS=1&OF=3&LF=0&CF=0&RF=0&CI=0&MI=0&IF=0&Util=1&mg=20&SP=5&RP=4&P=0&ms=5&mr=5

Top 20 Hitters:
Jose Bautista TOR 3B 483
Matt Kemp LAD OF 439
C. Granderson NYY OF 428
Adrian Gonzalez BOS 1B 426
Prince Fielder MIL 1B 405
Jose Reyes NYM SS 399
Jacoby Ellsbury BOS OF 399
Ryan Braun MIL OF 397
Miguel Cabrera DET 1B 395
Joey Votto CIN 1B 376
Mark Teixeira NYY 1B 374
A. McCutchen PIT OF 374
Ian Kinsler TEX 2B 373
Adrian Beltre TEX 3B 370
David Ortiz BOS Util 368
Paul Konerko CWS 1B 368
Dustin Pedroia BOS 2B 367
Chris Young ARI OF 366
Lance Berkman STL OF 367
Justin Upton ARI OF 363

Top 20 Pitchers:
Justin Verlander DET SP 420
CC Sabathia NYY SP 398
Roy Halladay PHI SP 393
Jered Weaver LAA SP 384
Cole Hamels PHI SP 363
James Shields TB SP 353
Cliff Lee PHI SP 348
Dan Haren LAA SP 347
C. Kershaw LAD SP 347
Felix Hernandez SEA SP 343
C.J. Wilson TEX SP 336
Ian Kennedy ARI SP 321
Jair Jurrjens ATL SP 315
Matt Cain SF SP 222
Jon Lester BOS SP 306
David Price TB SP 304
Jaime Garcia STL SP 303
Daniel Hudson ARI SP 300
Tim Lincecum SF SP 299
Yovani Gallardo MIL SP 298

The top hitters get more points than top pitchers, but some people think this is better anyway, or... we can give another point per IP to bring the value up a bit.

In general, my bet is that the top players won't be affected much by the system we put in place, because their numbers will put them above the rest anyway. The system really matters for second tier guys more than anything, and we want to be fair I think and give points to guys who help their team win.

[Deleted]

I like the way Reds made it...thank you both

[irish647f]

yea 8 points for a save is a little exessive i agree 5 points is better i beleive

[Rockies GM (Alex)]

I definitely agree with Reds on everything except for the Innings pitched. 2 points for each inning is a little to much. I'll be fine w/ all the changes Reds had with the scoring Astros set up except I'd like 1 point for an IP. Bad teams with no bullpen can easily pitch a guy 6 innings while he gives up 6 ER. Then he would get 6 points??? I think it's better that ER and IP are even to give a great value to pitchers who don't give up runs.

[Deleted]

Per Rockies suggestion, I reworked the stats to make ER = -2.5 and IP = 3. In this system, a pitcher with an ERA above 5 will actually get negative points (unless they can compensate with Ks and Ws, etc.)

This new system makes the following pitchers top 20:

Justin Verlander DET SP 517
Jered Weaver LAA SP 480
CC Sabathia NYY SP 478
Roy Halladay PHI SP 477
Cole Hamels PHI SP 444
James Shields TB SP 440
Dan Haren LAA SP 423
Cliff Lee PHI SP 421
Clayton Kershaw LAD SP 412
Felix Hernandez SEA SP 411
C.J. Wilson TEX SP 397
Jair Jurrjens ATL SP 391
Ian Kennedy ARI SP 375
Matt Cain SF SP 368
Josh Beckett BOS SP 362
Tim Lincecum SF SP 359
Tommy Hanson ATL SP 358
Gio Gonzalez OAK SP 357
Jaime Garcia STL SP 357
Jon Lester BOS SP 357

Top 20 hitters remain:
Jose Bautista TOR 3B 483
Matt Kemp LAD OF 439
C. Granderson NYY OF 428
Adrian Gonzalez BOS 1B 426
Prince Fielder MIL 1B 405
Jose Reyes NYM SS 399
Jacoby Ellsbury BOS OF 399
Ryan Braun MIL OF 397
Miguel Cabrera DET 1B 395
Joey Votto CIN 1B 376
Mark Teixeira NYY 1B 374
A. McCutchen PIT OF 374
Ian Kinsler TEX 2B 373
Adrian Beltre TEX 3B 370
David Ortiz BOS Util 368
Paul Konerko CWS 1B 368
Dustin Pedroia BOS 2B 367
Chris Young ARI OF 366
Lance Berkman STL OF 367
Justin Upton ARI OF 363

I think this is pretty close to real-life value of pitching vs. hitting.

To recap, scoring in this system is:
Hitters
2B - 2
3B - 3
BB - 1
CS - (-3)
H - 1
HR - 5
R - 1
RBI - 1
SB - 2
SO - (-.5)

Pitching
BS - (-5)
HLD - 3
IP - 3
ER - (-2.5)
K - .5
L - (-4)
S - 5
W - 8

While this system I feel is pretty even for starting pitching vs hitting, I think we should discuss relief pitching still. What should be the weight of holds/saves? And I want to remind guys that many set-up men get credited with blown saves if they cough up the lead, so they'll be getting negative points as often as closers, but will be getting less points for holds than for saves.

Does anyone have an opinion of the sweet spot for these 2 values?

[tmcook14]

I kept agreeing more as this post went down...I now agree with the Reds post above me ..

[Deleted]

Are you going to send us invites to that league or what do we do?

[Deleted]

Jul 13, 2011 13:51:20 GMT -5 Austin (Former Twins GM) said:

Are you going to send us invites to that league or what do we do?

PM Astros your email

[Angels GM (Derrick)]

While this system I feel is pretty even for starting pitching vs hitting, I think we should discuss relief pitching still. What should be the weight of holds/saves? And I want to remind guys that many set-up men get credited with blown saves if they cough up the lead, so they'll be getting negative points as often as closers, but will be getting less points for holds than for saves.

Does anyone have an opinion of the sweet spot for these 2 values?

I would first like to thank HOU for all his hard work, with COL being away lately, HOU has done a great job as a fill in LM. Also CIN for his continued work and refinement of our league scoring system.

I pretty much agree with the current incarnation of of league scoring system. The only real problem is, as stated above, the relief pitching points. Closers are way more valuable in real life , and in fantasy then almost all set-up men. Therefore their points accrued should be reflected accordingly.

IMO relief pitching points need to be bumped across the board. There's not a true reliever of any type in the top 50 pitchers according to these settings. That's niether consistant with real life MLB nor standard fantasy league play.

As far as pitchers overall are concerned.....I think we should try to get as close to the ESPN player rater settings as possible. This is based off of performance, and the categories used are listed in the link.

Top 20 Pitchers 2011 Season (ESPN Player Rater)
1 Justin Verlander, Det SP
2 Jered Weaver, LAA SP
3 Cole Hamels, Phi SP
4 Roy Halladay, Phi SP
5 James Shields, TB SP
6 Dan Haren, LAA SP
7 CC Sabathia, NYY SP
8 Cliff Lee, Phi SP
9 Clayton Kershaw, LAD SP
10 Jair Jurrjens, Atl SP
11 Tommy Hanson, Atl SP
12 Josh Beckett, Bos SP DTD
13 Craig Kimbrel, Atl RP
14 Drew Storen, Was RP
15 Felix Hernandez, Sea SP
16 Michael Pineda, Sea SP
17 Joel Hanrahan, Pit RP
18 Fernando Salas, StL RP
19 Alexi Ogando, Tex RP, SP
20 Matt Cain, SF SP
games.espn.go.com/flb/playerrater?&slotCategoryGroup=2

As far as comparing relievers overall to hitters, and starters alike. The ESPN player rater has the top closers sitting around 50 overall. So I would say use whatever combination of settings that gets the top closers in baseball points in the range of a top 50 overall( starter, reliever, hitter) player.
games.espn.go.com/flb/playerrater?&startIndex=0

[Deleted]

Jul 14, 2011 3:27:08 GMT -5 Angels GM (Derrick) said:

I would first like to thank HOU for all his hard work, with COL being away lately, HOU has done a great job as a fill in LM. Also CIN for his continued work and refinement of our league scoring system.

I pretty much agree with the current incarnation of of league scoring system. The only real problem is, as stated above, the relief pitching points. Closers are way more valuable in real life, and in fantasy then almost all set-up men. Therefore their points accrued should be reflected accordingly.

IMO relief pitching points need to be bumped across the board. There's not a true reliever of any type in the top 50 pitchers according to these settings. That's niether consistant with real life MLB nor standard fantasy league play.

As far as pitchers overall are concerned.....I think we should try to get as close to the ESPN player rater settings as possible. This is based off of performance, and the categories used are listed in the link.

Top 20 Pitchers 2011 Season (ESPN Player Rater)
1 Justin Verlander, Det SP
2 Jered Weaver, LAA SP
3 Cole Hamels, Phi SP
4 Roy Halladay, Phi SP
5 James Shields, TB SP
6 Dan Haren, LAA SP
7 CC Sabathia, NYY SP
8 Cliff Lee, Phi SP
9 Clayton Kershaw, LAD SP
10 Jair Jurrjens, Atl SP
11 Tommy Hanson, Atl SP
12 Josh Beckett, Bos SP DTD
13 Craig Kimbrel, Atl RP
14 Drew Storen, Was RP
15 Felix Hernandez, Sea SP
16 Michael Pineda, Sea SP
17 Joel Hanrahan, Pit RP
18 Fernando Salas, StL RP
19 Alexi Ogando, Tex RP, SP
20 Matt Cain, SF SP
games.espn.go.com/flb/playerrater?&slotCategoryGroup=2

The player rater rates players based on a roto system. So saves being a category, it gives them a lot of sway even if they don't pitch a lot of inning.

An alternate way to check the value of a pitchers is by using WAR (Wins above replacement), which estimates how many more wins a particular player has generated above a league average player.

The list tells a much different story: www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=n&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0

In this list, the first closer comes in at 37. It's also quite logical if you think about it. If that weren't the case, why would the Rangers be so gun ho about converting Feliz to a starter. It's because even if he's the 30th or 40th best starter, he'll help the team win more than as a top 5 closer.

Personally, I'm not sure if I care much about RP scoring, but since I'm a big baseball fan, I want my fantasy leagues to be as "real" as possible, so that's why I'm so into the scoring system being done correctly even if it doesn't bode well for my team (after all, my staff and bullpen suck).

[Deleted]

Reds is right. Closers should be valuable, the top closer being about as valueable as a great #2 SP. Personaply I'd put the top closer in the top 25-30 SP range.

[Jacob (Former Tigers GM)]

Can't Wait.

[astrosgm]

Okay, after the suggestions made by the Reds, I uodated the scoring to the points he made, although not exactly the same as he had.


The scoring that we are probably going to take into effect this season going forward, as of now it is pretty much evened out, (but it slightly favors hitting) is as of follows -

Hitting

2B - 2
3B - 3
BB - 1
CS - (-2)
H - 1
HR - 5
R - 1
RBI - 1
SB - 3
SO - (-.5)

Pitching

BS - (-4)
ER - (-1.)
HLD - 4
IP - 2
K- 1
L - (-4)
SV - 6
W - 8

If you want to see the top 20 hitters and pitchers and pitchers, go and check out the fantrax league pages.

If anybody has a problem with these, just post them here!

[Deleted]

Looks fine to me! This is great about a test run...we can change it before next March.