|
|
Post by Orioles GM (Michael) on Nov 13, 2017 22:19:14 GMT -5
Orioles trade:
Derek Dietrich 18: $4.3M
P Keury Mella $300k
5th Round Pick (BAL)
Padres trade:
SP Tyler Anderson 18: $800k (3 of 7)
RP Adam Ottavino 18: $4.3M, 19: $4.3M (club option)
Padres add Dietrich, who put up strong 2017 numbers and will take over the starting 2B gig in Miami when Gordon is dealt. Also sheds Ottavino's expensive salary, and adds a pick and a prospect. I add a starter, but one who wasn't listed in ESPN's Top 100 SPs entering 2018, as well as a bounce-back candidate in Ottavino. Both sides address needs.
Padres to confirm.
Edit: Dietrich was listed as 4.1M salary. It's 4.3M.
|
|
|
|
Post by Padres GM (Denver) on Nov 13, 2017 22:23:02 GMT -5
Down to 6 SP, but I now have 73ish mil to spend, which is a lot more than I was expecting. Also got me moving toward the future with a pick and spect with my loads of cash.
Plus Anderson pitches for my Rockies, and I don't like to invest in pitchers at Coors.
|
|
|
|
Post by Astros GM (Will) on Nov 13, 2017 22:58:29 GMT -5
Veto again - hardly any future or present value in return for a competent SP. To Mike's ranking remark - we roll 150 SP deep at least, so even a SP ranked 100-150 has immense value. Sporer has Anderson ranked 102 FWIW.
I don't care for Mella much, but I don't think it's arguable that Mella and a 5th Round pick equate to Anderson's value right now. This is just dumping players at this point.
|
|
|
|
Post by Orioles GM (Michael) on Nov 13, 2017 23:06:51 GMT -5
Veto again - hardly any future or present value in return for a competent SP. To Mike's ranking remark - we roll 150 SP deep at least, so even a SP ranked 100-150 has immense value. Sporer has Anderson ranked 102 FWIW. I don't care for Mella much, but I don't think it's arguable that Mella and a 5th Round pick equate to Anderson's value right now. This is just dumping players at this point. Mella/the 5th was because Padres wanted to dump Ottavino's contract, but also still wanted something for him. It was really a swap of Dietrich for Anderson in my eyes. A starting 2B with offensive talent and an affordable salary for a low-mid tier starting pitcher coming off injury. I viewed that as a fair swap |
|
|
|
Post by Astros GM (Will) on Nov 13, 2017 23:56:07 GMT -5
How is he dumping Ottavino contract when he's taking Dietrich? Both are projected for nearly the same amount of points, and Ottavino has an extra year.
|
|
|
|
Post by Orioles GM (Michael) on Nov 14, 2017 0:15:12 GMT -5
How is he dumping Ottavino contract when he's taking Dietrich? Both are projected for nearly the same amount of points, and Ottavino has an extra year. Because Dietrich is 4.3M for what will be a starting second baseman, which will also alter projections. Ottavino is 4.3M for a middle reliever that posted a 5+ ERA this season. Even if it's the same money, if (real MLB example) the Red Sox traded Rusney Castillo's contract to the Angels for Mike Trout, they still ditch having to spend that much money on a guy of Castillo's production. |
|
|
|
Post by Astros GM (Will) on Nov 14, 2017 0:41:51 GMT -5
Dietrich is listed on the bench on the depth chart behind Riddle, Dee Gordon, and Martin Prado and Ottavino is listed as the Rockies closer right now. Bullpen points are also more valuable than bench hitters, especially for a team like the Padres who have clearly signaled as sellers.
I don't really think this 1-to-1 is close either. Also not really helping that you have to downplay the upside of your return.
|
|
|
|
Post by Orioles GM (Michael) on Nov 14, 2017 0:56:56 GMT -5
Dietrich is listed on the bench on the depth chart behind Riddle, Dee Gordon, and Martin Prado and Ottavino is listed as the Rockies closer right now. Bullpen points are also more valuable than bench hitters, especially for a team like the Padres who have clearly signaled as sellers. I don't really think this 1-to-1 is close either. Also not really helping that you have to downplay the upside of your return. Dietrich is listed solely behind Gordon on Marlins team site, and Mike Dunn is listed as Rockies closer right now on their team site, so I worked off that. Not sure what depths you were using, but that's what I went off of. Given that Dee Gordon is as good as gone in Miami, seeing a productive guy like Dietrich listed as the sole guy behind him makes me think I'm reasoned in thinking Dietrich has a starting job in Miami come 2018. |
|
|
|
Post by Astros GM (Will) on Nov 14, 2017 1:04:08 GMT -5
If anything, Denver needs to defend this trade better before I consider changing the vote. He's been severely undervaluing SP in 3 straight trades now and giving away controllable years of useful players for pennies on the dollar.
|
|
|
|
Post by Orioles GM (Michael) on Nov 14, 2017 1:11:59 GMT -5
If anything, Denver needs to defend this trade better before I consider changing the vote. He's been severely undervaluing SP in 3 straight trades now and giving away controllable years of useful players for pennies on the dollar. I'll of course let him speak for himself, but I do think that we've seen an overreaction from one side of the spectrum in regards to starting pitching, when in reality there's been a far wider range of opinions across the league. You have some people who think the Indians got a steal getting Fiers for a 2nd rounder, while others think it was absurd for him to give up a second rounder for a guy like Fiers. Some think it was solid for Red Sox to give up their picks for Jake Thompson, while others think it was overpay. You have people who were upset by the Chase Anderson trade, and yet there were far more approvals than vetos. Like I said, Denver can speak for himself, but I do think there's been a vocal group that isn't representative of the collective when it comes to the value of starting pitching, especially considering the debates haven't been over ace-level (or even, by and large, top-3 of rotation-level) starters. |
|
|
|
Post by Dave (Former Nationals GM) on Nov 14, 2017 7:35:48 GMT -5
Approve
|
|
|
|
Post by Royals GM (Bill) on Nov 14, 2017 8:34:14 GMT -5
Approve. While I can see some merit in both sides of the debate, I don’t think that any player in this deal is good enough to make a significant difference in the league’s competitive balance. I see this coming down to team preference as to where they want to shore up their respective rosters.
|
|
|
|
Post by Brewers GM (Tim) on Nov 14, 2017 9:49:44 GMT -5
Approve
|
|
|
|
Post by Rockies GM (Alex) on Nov 15, 2017 17:03:35 GMT -5
I'm sorry Mike.... I'm trying to wrap my head around this one, but can't. Tyler Anderson is still on his first years of team control, and has four years after this. Ottavino has two years of control left and is listed as the Rockies closer on multiple sites if the season started today. Derek Dietrich is expiring and will only get playing time IF Dee Gordon is traded, and that's assuming that they don't sign or trade for someone else. That's a lot of ifs. This will probably get approved anyways, because it's official at 9:30 tonight, but Denver I would look at all these vetoes not as people against you trading, but just to maybe rethink how you value SP.
As Travis has been saying, we did use to veto more based on just the trade... and not if it affects the whole league. I'm not sure where I lean, but I think we should be looking at each individual trade objectively.
Veto (3-2)
|
|
|
|
Post by D'backs GM (Kyle) on Nov 15, 2017 17:28:19 GMT -5
I'm sorry Mike.... I'm trying to wrap my head around this one, but can't. Tyler Anderson is still on his first years of team control, and has four years after this. Ottavino has two years of control left and is listed as the Rockies closer on multiple sites if the season started today. Derek Dietrich is expiring and will only get playing time IF Dee Gordon is traded, and that's assuming that they don't sign or trade for someone else. That's a lot of ifs. This will probably get approved anyways, because it's official at 9:30 tonight, but Denver I would look at all these vetoes not as people against you trading, but just to maybe rethink how you value SP. As Travis has been saying, we did use to veto more based on just the trade... and not if it affects the whole league. I'm not sure where I lean, but I think we should be looking at each individual trade objectively. Veto (3-2) Veto from me. SP is hard to come by as is high leverage RPs. Anderson is under team control for years and I personally feel it’s giving up too much for an MI with 1 year left and questionable playing time. |
|
|
|
Post by Phillies GM (Zach) on Nov 15, 2017 19:13:03 GMT -5
Veto from me for basically all the reasons already stated in this thread. Not enough for a SP and a potential closer.
|
|
|
|
Post by Braves GM (Jared) on Nov 15, 2017 20:04:18 GMT -5
Approve. Any pitcher in Coors is a super volatile commodity. One day you are Ubaldo Jimenez, and the next day, you are Ubaldo Jimenez
|
|
|
|
Post by Rockies GM (Alex) on Nov 17, 2017 11:04:47 GMT -5
This trade received four veto votes before the 48 hours was up. In line with league rules, this deal is cancelled. If Gordon is traded, I'd roll with something like this again. Thanks!
|
|
