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Post by Orioles GM (Michael) on Nov 12, 2021 13:43:16 GMT -5
Orioles trade: SP Clayton Kershaw 21: $30M, 22: $30M, 23: $30M $22.5M coverage in 21 (75%), $10M coverage in 22 (33%) Yankees trade: SS Brayan Rocchio $300k (spec) P Jay Groome $300k (spec) 2022 3rd (NYY) P Mike Leake 21: $5M, 22: $5M (cap purposes) P Heath Hembree 21: $2.8M, 22: $4.8M (22 will be 6 of 7 - A) (cap purposes) Kershaw's a favorite of mine, so sucks to move him after one year, but I was going to have next to no cap space to operate this year after arb salaries, so needed to move some money around. Excited to keep building out the farm, hopefully Groome can rise quickly and take Kershaw's spot in the rotation. Trade comp: baseknock.proboards.com/thread/9968/cardinals-dbacksReturn is easily less than a quarter of what DBacks got for Lynn plus Castillo, and Lynn is a year older than Kershaw, missed starts this year, and is owed over 21M for next 3 seasons. So even if Lynn was a quarter of the value in that trade (and he was more than that), this is still a lesser return for a comparable pitcher than a deal that was easily approved within last few months. |
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Post by Yankees GM (Jacob) on Nov 12, 2021 13:49:04 GMT -5
Hard to move on from Rocchio, but I have a hoard of shortstops. Getting rid of Leake and Hembree's contracts will be nice. Kershaw is an ace caliber guy to go with Manoah and Detmers in my rotation and eventually Whitley.
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Post by Rockies GM (Alex) on Nov 12, 2021 16:10:52 GMT -5
Honest question... is Kershaw a positive asset right now with that $30m in 2023? I've heard rumors that he's not healthy right now.
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Post by Orioles GM (Michael) on Nov 12, 2021 16:14:46 GMT -5
Honest question... is Kershaw a positive asset right now with that $30m in 2023? I've heard rumors that he's not healthy right now. Everything I've seen suggests he'll be fine for 2022 and the Dodgers' qualifying offer thing was out of respect for him (example: www.si.com/mlb/rangers/news/hot-stove-los-angeles-dodgers-clayton-kershaw-texas-rangers ). Kershaw's relatively older so he obviously some risk like any other pitcher on the wrong side of 30, but that's also why the cost to acquire someone of his caliber was comparably low given what other guys have gone for. |
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Post by Rockies GM (Alex) on Nov 12, 2021 16:19:32 GMT -5
It says "404 Error, we cannot find the page you requested." Attachments:
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Post by Orioles GM (Michael) on Nov 12, 2021 16:20:22 GMT -5
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Post by Padres GM (Denver) on Nov 12, 2021 16:46:59 GMT -5
I think the deal ends up being fair in the long run. If Kershaw is healthy he’s still a good arm to have.
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Post by Padres GM (Denver) on Nov 12, 2021 16:49:20 GMT -5
Approve
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Post by Alex (Former Rays GM) on Nov 12, 2021 17:08:50 GMT -5
Approve
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Post by Cardinals GM (Nik) on Nov 12, 2021 17:13:25 GMT -5
This makes no sense to me
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Post by Marlins GM (Travis) on Nov 12, 2021 17:22:30 GMT -5
He's got a hard on for Kershaw. Let him free.
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Post by Nationals GM (Tim) on Nov 12, 2021 18:23:06 GMT -5
Mike is dumping $50,000,000 in salary to get rid of a guy who’s arm might just fall off the next time he sneezes. And he’s getting a really good spec and a good spec, plus the pick.
I don’t understand Jacob’s reason for even considering this deal either. He doesn’t have any real reason to acquire him. Obviously we can’t judge trades based off the stupidity of the owner, rather the actual trade itself.
This is a veto for me mostly because of dumping all that salary in addition to picking up a nice haul of specs/pick. Kershaw is no longer a fantasy lock and he should be valued as such.
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Post by Orioles GM (Michael) on Nov 12, 2021 18:28:18 GMT -5
Mike is dumping $50,000,000 in salary to get rid of a guy who’s arm might just fall off the next time he sneezes. And he’s getting a really good spec and a good spec, plus the pick. I don’t understand Jacob’s reason for even considering this deal either. He doesn’t have any real reason to acquire him. Obviously we can’t judge trades based off the stupidity of the owner, rather the actual trade itself. This is a veto for me mostly because of dumping all that salary in addition to picking up a nice haul of specs/pick. Kershaw is no longer a fantasy lock and he should be valued as such. "Dumping all that salary"? It's one big-salary year. With Leake and Hembree coming over it's functionally 15M next year which is just north of a big arb salary. Took those two instead of formally covering just to make 21 cap work. baseknock.proboards.com/thread/9968/cardinals-dbacksReturn is easily less than a quarter of what DBacks got for Lynn plus Castillo, and Lynn is a year older than Kershaw, missed starts this year, and is owed over 21M for next 3 seasons. So even if Lynn was a quarter of the value in that trade (and he was more than that), this is still a lesser return for a comparable pitcher than a deal that was easily approved within last few months. |
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Post by Guardians GM (Thomas) on Nov 12, 2021 20:44:45 GMT -5
Approve. Kershaw is a big question mark, but he is one of the greatest pitchers to ever play and I think he’s worth the price point still.
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Post by Rangers GM (Ahmed) on Nov 13, 2021 0:01:39 GMT -5
Approve. I know Orioles are dumping Kershaw but he will find a way of coming back. The question is how good is Jay Groome after being a hype after he was drafted?
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Post by Royals GM (Bill) on Nov 13, 2021 18:06:27 GMT -5
Veto. This deal is very similar to the COL/TEX deal that was recently vetoed. BAL drops $50M in salary on NYY and gets a good and a decent prospect plus a pick for this salary relief. Kershaw’s health has been shaky, he’s dealing with forearm tightness and the Dodgers, who know his health status better than anyone, failed to make a qualifying offer to him.
Imagine being on the hook for $30M in 2 years for him while having received nothing in return.
It would seem to me that NYY should be getting a prospect package back for eating all that salary, not giving up even more.
Also, why are we posting coverage for salaries for a season that is over, as if that is somehow a benefit?
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Post by Rockies GM (Alex) on Nov 14, 2021 7:53:02 GMT -5
Veto (4-3). Agreed with Bill and Tim. My reasoning is... Jacob could wait a month or so to see if Kershaw is healthy before making this move. $30m in 2023 is a ton to commit to for an old pitcher. If we find out Kershaw is totally fine... then go ahead with the same trade, I would totally approve that. Just such a huge risk for a rebuilding team that I don't think is necessary to make in November... wait until all the risk isn't put on NYY.
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Post by Cardinals GM (Nik) on Nov 14, 2021 9:07:20 GMT -5
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Post by Marlins GM (Travis) on Nov 14, 2021 11:21:17 GMT -5
So you guys are punishing Mike, because Jacob didn't do his research? Basically why you all are vetoing. The trade itself, without the article you all Googled, isn't the worst I've ever seen. I really don't like the way this turned out. Mike got screwed here.
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Post by Rockies GM (Alex) on Nov 14, 2021 11:40:05 GMT -5
Marlins GM (Travis) ... we're supposed to approve a bad trade because Jacob didn't know Kershaw had forearm tightness? It's not punishing Mike. That's like saying you can't veto because you looked up these stats not posted in the trade that say a player isn't as good as we thought he was? What kind of logic is that? It's all public information. If Kershaw isn't hurt, as I said, I will 100% approve this if they re-try the trade later on.
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Post by Cardinals GM (Nik) on Nov 14, 2021 12:03:52 GMT -5
Mike got screwed out of screwing Jacob
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Post by Marlins GM (Travis) on Nov 14, 2021 15:31:45 GMT -5
Marlins GM (Travis) ... we're supposed to approve a bad trade because Jacob didn't know Kershaw had forearm tightness? It's not punishing Mike. That's like saying you can't veto because you looked up these stats not posted in the trade that say a player isn't as good as we thought he was? What kind of logic is that? It's all public information. If Kershaw isn't hurt, as I said, I will 100% approve this if they re-try the trade later on. You just said my point...you'd approve the trade, if not for questions about his health. He's not getting TJ as of right now, and reports say he just needs rest and will be ready for Spring Training. Are there any other reports that say otherwise? No, not at this time. So, you're punishing Mike because Jacob either didn't do his research, or was satisfied with reports saying he just needs rest. |
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Post by Marlins GM (Travis) on Nov 14, 2021 15:43:52 GMT -5
Give me one report that says either he will need surgery (or even, doctors suggest he get surgery), or that he won't be ready for Spring Training, and I'll shut up. AND, reports have already said he has no structural damage to his UCL. What else do you guys want?
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